‘Obedience Never Wipes Away Conscience’: Fr. Frank Pavone Speaks Out After Vatican Removes Him From Priesthood

Fr. Frank Pavone, one of the most prominent U.S. Catholic priests organizing to defend life, says he’s still never been told which specific social media posts were deemed “blasphemous,” leading to his shocking defrocking by the Vatican in December.

A letter obtained last month by Catholic News Agency said Pavone was dismissed for his social media activity and “persistent disobedience of the lawful instructions of his diocesan bishop.” Pavone says he’s been in the crosshairs of some U.S. bishops for decades over his open pro-life and sometimes corresponding political views.

“It would be nice if they told me,” Pavone told Ben Shapiro on “The Sunday Special,” affirming that it has still not been articulated to him which posts of his are supposedly blasphemous.

CLICK HERE FOR BEN SHAPIRO’S “SUNDAY SPECIAL” WITH FATHER FRANK PAVONE

Shapiro asked Pavone about a video that’s been brought up, where the priest placed an aborted baby on an altar. Pavone said he’s been doing this exercise “for decades,” adding that it’s important for people to know what abortion actually looks like. He said that the altar was a table at his organization Priests for Life, and was not consecrated. “We have to elect people who are willing to protect these babies,” Pavone said.

“Their reasons have shifted over these 21 years,” Pavone went on, speaking about the push-back he’s received from some bishops. “It’s always been something else; it’s always been a shifting goalpost. … When one question is settled, they bring up a different concern.”

“In the latest, they actually said I had blasphemous communications on social media,” Pavone noted. “I’m honestly not aware of any blasphemy I’ve committed.”

“They keep saying to me, ‘Oh, you’re being disobedient, you’re being disobedient.’ They say to me, ‘You can’t try to save babies,’” he told Shapiro. “We run the largest pro-life ministry in the world for healing people after abortion. … We run these healing retreats — that’s part of our ministry.”

“If the question of obedience is, ‘Well, you can’t save these babies’ lives’ — ultimately, it comes down to the question of conscience,” Pavone said. “Obedience in any sphere of life never wipes away conscience, and this is something very very basic and simple.”

“If I see a child over there whose life is in danger and I wanna go over and save it — trespass laws fall by the wayside, all kinds of things fall by the wayside, because saving his life takes priority,” he illustrated.

“And that’s really been the nub of the problem, for some reason. Some of them don’t want me focusing on abortion,” the Catholic added.

Pavone noted that he’s followed assignments and been obedient to the Church in every other way, highlighting to Shapiro that he wasn’t wearing his priest collar. “I’m not going to rebel against that, I’m gonna work through the systems the Church provides to get reinstated,” he said.

A statement attached to a letter from Archbishop Christophe Pierre to U.S. bishops, dated December 13, claimed Pavone “was given ample opportunity to defend himself in the canonical proceedings, and he was also given multiple opportunities to submit himself to the authority of his diocesan bishop.”

“It was determined that Father Pavone had no reasonable justification for his actions,” the letter said.

The statement notably referred to Pavone as a “lay person” and added that Priests for Life “is not a Catholic organization.”

Pavone learned about his apparent removal via Catholic News Agency reporting. “How did CNA learn about this before I did?” he responded to the organization via email.

Related: Pro-Life Fr. Frank Pavone Removed From Priesthood By Vatican; Responds With Defiant Message

More Classified Material Found At Property Owned By Biden

President Joe Biden’s lawyers found five additional pages of classified material at the president’s home in Delaware this week, according to a statement on Saturday from the White House.

The New York Times reported that sources claimed that materials were discovered after the White House said on Thursday that only one piece of classified material was discovered in a storage area adjacent to Biden’s allegedly “locked” garage, where more classified documents were found.

“Because I have a security clearance, I went to Wilmington Thursday evening to facilitate providing the document the president’s personal counsel found on Wednesday to the Justice Department,” said Richard Sauber, special counsel to the president. “While I was transferring it to the DOJ officials who accompanied me, five additional pages with classification markings were discovered among the material with it, for a total of six pages. The DOJ officials with me immediately took possession of them.”

Federal law enforcement officials have reportedly interviewed numerous aides who worked for then-Vice President Biden during the final weeks of the Obama administration over how classified materials were handled that ended up at the Penn Biden Center and at Biden’s home.

U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced Thursday that he appointed a special counsel to take over the investigation.

Garland appointed former U.S. Attorney Robert Hur — who served during the Trump administration — to serve as special counsel in the investigation after the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois John Lausch, who was assigned to do an initial review of the case, recommended to Garland that a special counsel be appointed.

“On January 5th, 2023, Mr. Lausch briefed me on the results of his initial investigation and advised me that further investigation by a special counsel was warranted. Based on Mr. Lausch’s initial investigation, I concluded that, under the special counsel regulations, it was in the public interest to appoint a special counsel,” Garland said. “In the days since, while Mr. Lausch continued the investigation, the department identified Mr. Hur for appointment as special counsel.”

The order signed by Garland said that Hur would investigate “the possible unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or other records discovered.”

“The document authorizes him to investigate whether any person or entity violated the law in connection with this matter,” Garland said at the press conference. “The special counsel will not be subject to the day-to-day supervision of any official of the department, but he must comply with the regulations, procedures and policies of the department.”

The review began sometime after Biden’s personal attorney found 10 classified documents stashed in an envelope in the president’s private office at the Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy and Global Engagement in Washington. The attorney discovered the envelope on November 2, though the discovery was not made public until earlier this week. The documents were immediately turned over to the National Archives for storage, Sauber said.

Sauber said in a statement that a review of Biden’s known offices, quarters, and other spaces turned up a second set of classified documents, these located at the president’s home in Wilmington, Delaware.

Tim Pearce contributed to this report.